Monday, August 22, 2011

PvE vs PvP progression in WoW

So over the weekend I got into an epic argument with a guildie. In hindsight I probably should have just let it go. Basically, I made a statement, he got upset about it and tried to show I was wrong, and I defended it. I should have just said that he's free to disagree. Ah well.

A friend was talking about going for a bear mount ZA run, and I said he should wait for a guild run instead of trying to pug it, as pug's are often very bad. We were lamenting this and I said that a way to improve troll heroic success would be to make it so pvp gear didn't contribute to your average ilvl that you need to get into a troll heroic (343). My complaint was that new level 85's can do a week of bg's and get 371 ilvl honor gear, and that lets them into the most difficult heroics, without any need to do the reg instances, then normal heroics, and finally get to troll heroics. This short-cutting to the hard group content lets peeps get into the run when they don't have enough experience grouping, and hurts completion rates.

Another random person in the guild who is a crazy pvp-focused person took immediate offense and got very angry. He said it was discrimination to not accept pvp gear as a means to get into heroics, as it is really hard to get pvp gear, and it was unfair to force people to go through a bunch of extra work just because they pvp.

Sigh, I should never have said anything back. You can't argue with pvp people. They try to win, not to grow in understanding. Instead I tried to enforce my idea that pvp and pve should be separate progression paths. I suggested that there should be a pve raid stat, like heroism or something, that would be the equivalent of resilience for pvp. This stat should be stressed and balanced in such a manner that ilvl 300 gear with resilience would be better than 378 raid gear with no resilience, and vice versa. So you could be at 359 on your pvp progression path, and 378 on your pve progression path, with completely separate gear.

He became quite mad at my 'cheapening' his hard earned pvp gear. He said it wasn't about the gear, it was about player skill. That there's like 9 tiers of pvp and matchmaking puts you into the right tier for you. He wanted a system where people could insta-kick bads from groups and all the bads would then have to play with each other instead of with us goods. Completely ignoring that some of those kicked would simply be new players or new roles, or even decent players who simply didn't have good gear. He saw the world as goods vs bads, instead of a spectrum of skill and gear levels.

I agree with him that it's not about gear, it's about player skill, and the best predictor of success in a new heroic is whether you've been able to succeed at a similarly difficult heroic. I'd be happy to make it so that to get into the next tier of heroics you had to complete the previous tier, like the raid attunements in BC. He became even more mad at this, what he saw as wasting time in boring stuff to get to the good stuff.

Sigh, this is making me not happy just going through it all again. So ima stop.

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